Memorergi good film but with many flaws

Stevecorp Don't listen to the negative reviews

Cleveronix A different way of telling a story

Wyatt There's no way I can possibly love it entirely but I just think its ridiculously bad, but enjoyable at the same time.

imayne For those who have seen the likes of Braveheart, 300 and Gladiator can go into this movie expecting a Chinese version of all three films. Criticized for bland and scatter-shot characterization by many while screening in Asia, I for one loved it.This is an ancient story known to most children in the Far East: in the Three Kingdoms period, numerous warlords partition China and the eventual result boils down to three major ones: Liu Bei, Sun Quan and Cao Cao, who was also the Prime Minister, and de facto ruler of the country. When Cao Cao was on the verge of conquering all of China, a joint force of Liu Bei and Sun Quan engaged him in a naval battle at Red Cliff and defeated him by burning his entire fleet with the aid of the wind.So famous, and so quoted is this story in the Far East, that one would be surprised that this film adaptation is nothing but formulaic. It is almost a twist, a turnabout, on the formula of the "Big Man History" format that has dogged Hollywood epics, the whole idea that one man can inspire thousands to affect a series of triumphs. In this movie, that is entirely changed. Like Milton in "Paradise Lost", this film seems to be "of the devil's party", and it may jolly well know it, even if slyly.The Devil here refers to the villain of the piece, Cao Cao, who also happens to be the most well-drawn character in the movie. Historically known as one of the wisest and most beneficent rulers of the day, his Machiavellian hardball politics at odds with China's Confucian orthodoxy ("holding the Emperor hostage, commanding the nobles.") have however tarnished his reputation among Confucian scholars, and here both sides of his nature are acknowledged. Power-hungry, passionate and cunning, but not without a sense of humor. This is a man who composes classic poems as he leads his troops into battle, laughs as he sends diseased corpses into enemy camps as germ warfare, and kills anyone that he so much as suspects of disloyalty. As the movie proceeds on through a series of maneuvers and counter-maneuvers by both sides, what falls Cao Cao and results in his eventual defeat (an ending known to most children in the Pacific Rim) is precisely that monstrous ego. He commands front and centre among his troops to the extent that all those around him never get a chance to shine. His monstrous ego and overwhelming power cause him to ignore or steamroll over good advice, and is key to his downfall, down to very last decisive second. In spite of his intelligence and charisma, because no one enforces checks on his power, no one is there to correct his mistakes.Far from the case in the armies of Liu Bei or Sun Quan, Cao Cao's rivals. Within their groups, there is a division of labor, and both Sun Quan and Liu Bei are intelligent, charismatic but not egotistical. In such a situation power is at least checked within the group and tempered by a sense of mutual respect and honor, in contrast to the unwavering loyalty and obedience that Cao Cao demands of his troops. Loyalty towards the group in this case is not co-existing with loyalty to the leader. It is this mutual respect and this ability to pool good ideas and listen to good advice, that ultimate leads Sun Quan and Liu Bei to victory.What do you know! Chinese cinema has just produced in the form of a historical epic, an impassioned allegory for the advantages of democracy. This movie is at the same time a great showing-up of the oddly undemocratic nature of the Hollywood historical epic, with its "Big Man"-centred heroic narratives.This may be John Woo's cleverest and most understatedly subversive film yet.

KineticSeoul The first half of this film was at least amusing but it starts to fall apart from there. This film is more cartoonish than the first movie and not realistic at all, a lot of parts in the movie never really happened in Chinese history. From what I heard the final battle scene of this movie wasn't even fought by the people who are portrayed in the movie, I assume John Woo went this direction cause he only spent time developing only a handful of characters and to top it off the movie ends with a wimper. The first movie at least had some good battle scenes, but part 2 really lacks the battle scenes compared to part 1 and I thought part 1 lacked action as well. John Woo just added a lot of drama without actually adding anything to the brutality of war. The final stand off in the movie was absurd and not believable and it's not just cause it didn't happen in Chinese history that way even though I don't know the Chinese historical context I know a lot of the parts portrayed in the movie to be false. Even when John Woo tries to add character development to some of the other characters like Sun Shangxiang he was doing more damage than good, cause it wasn't captivating what so ever. I don't even want to get into the bad dialogue cause it well pretty bad. I will give this movie a 7 cause at least the first half of the movie was more captivating than part 1 although the battle cause it was ridiculous and not very engaging the ending was a let down as well.7/10

taroqq I pretty much agreed w/ the reviews of 'A Nutshell Review' and '(lovehkfilm.com)'. I'm a bit less enthusiastic than the latter because of the ending (more on that later), but I do agree w/ him that this is the best John Woo film in the last 10, no, 15, yrs since 'Hard Boiled'.This is so much better than the 1st part in terms of pacing, story, and dialog that it's not even funny. As a fan of both Woo's HK movies and the novel, I thought there're certain aspects in the story that were handled much better in the movie. For example in the novel, the use of the 33rd stratagem 'Let the enemy's own spy sow discord in the enemy camp' to dispose of Cao Cao's naval generals always comes across as a bit too simplistic; the use of the 34th stratagem 'Inflict injury on one's self to win the enemy's trust' stretches my limit of suspension of disbelief (the reason was explained in the movie), and Zhuge Liang is someone with super-natural powers w/ the ability to change wind directions (as oppose to in the movie where he's just an expert in meteorology). Sun Shangxiang as a spy in enemy camp did stretched my limit (not because she's female but because of her princess status), but since Zhao Wei's also playing Mulan in a upcoming movie I'll grudgingly accept that for the sake of entertainment. What I couldn't accept was the rushed ending which was handled much better in the novel. Cao Cao should have had more than 2 capable generals at the end to at least stall, if not match the opposition's generals one on one and I would have accepted that, in the melee of trying to save Xiao Qiao, Cao Cao was rushed away by some of his other generals, and that they would not pursue him because after all, it's 50K+ against 800K+ and the victor's would have suffered heavy casualties as well. It was a 9-rating movie up to that point, but since it's Woo's best movie in a while I'll just dock another point.In conclusion, don't miss this if you're a John Woo fan (of his HK movies).

dbborroughs Picking up immediately after the end of the first film (There is a brief recap during the opening credits but don't think its going to get you up to speed if you haven't seen the first film.) the two opposing armies still sit across the river from each other. The "evil" prime minister with his vast army and navy waits across the water waiting for the right time to strike the assembled warlords from the South. The Warlords on the other hand are drawing up their final plans. They are waiting for more weapons to arrive and for one of their own to return from the enemy camp with vital intelligence. As the film get under way alliances are tested, the dire need of weapons is made clear and typhoid begins to get a foot hold in both camps. As the first 90 or so minutes of the film unfolds the stage is set and things are amped up for a battle that last the better part of an hour and is utterly exhausting.As a stand alone film, (one that stands alone but is connected to the first film, but not one that you can come upon on its own and hope to understand fully) this is awesome. Its takes a while to get reacquainted to all of the characters and plot lines but once you get a grasp again on every one and everything the film is truly compelling. This is a spectacle and an epic film that puts most Hollywood films to shame. The size of this film is massive. Its clear that most of what you are seeing is real, the people, the places are all real. Yes there is CGI, particularly in the final battle, but then there would have to be simply because you couldn't have done it any other way. I honestly don't have words to describe this film.To be honest I was a bit disappointed at the start because the film takes a while to get to the battle.Its not that there is anything wrong with the timing, except that when the first film ended I would have thought the battle was going to quickly come. As I said earlier it takes 90 minutes for the battle to actually start, but the time isn't wasted. Characters that were not as well drawn in the first film are fleshed out here. Plot is revealed, twists exposed. and we as the audience is made to connect more. Its all for a reason. I was a bit fidgety in my seat for a while until I realized that it was simply wanting to get to the final show down not because of what was on the screen. I mean how can one quibble where you have sequences like the burning of the bodies, the hospital speech, the scarecrows, or the return of the spy all of which are perfectly constructed set pieces. On top of that you have the wonderful interplay between the characters that makes the final sequence all that more emotional. Once I realized I was being stupid the film fell into place.This is simply put a great film. It needs to be seen on a big screen close to the first part.---------- Red Cliff as a whole (both parts) is I think one of the best films I've ever seen. Its an awesome experience. I know I keep saying that but I don't know what else to say. Its a nicely paced five hour film that has fully rounded characters (something it may take the full run time to see happen), fantastic action, deep emotion and almost anything you could want. I don't know how deep the film is but as a "romance" film, in the classical sense, its truly amazing. John Woo has made a masterpiece, though on some level even that is too small a word. Its a film that is only really comparable to films like War and Peace, Lord of the Rings and a handful of others where film becomes an immersion tank. You are dropped in this place and time and for many hours the world passes before your eyes. Its one of those films where you can't even really talk about the flaws because they are so inconsequential (and to be fair some of the things that bothered me about the first film, lack of character for example, are corrected in the large canvas). Even if one were to quibble with some of the visual effects, its kind of pointless because there is no way to have filmed a navy on fire on the scale its seen here with anything other then computer effects.How in the world are they going to cut this in half? I don't know if its possible. There will be holes in the plot and way too many unrealized characters. In releasing this as a sort film they are going to make a lesser film. Certainly all of the emotion will be drained.John Woo has made his best film, a film that transcends most other films.See it- preferably in its full glory.ADDENDUM:The International (all in one version) If you can see the full two part film. The all in on version loses about 75 or 80 minutes from the first film and a little less from this one. Everything is reduced from the scope and amount of action, to character development and some plot. Characters are missing and things are often confused. The short version rates between 6 and 7 out of 10. Trust me its worth it to see the full version.